The Princess

To My Beloved Royalty...

Let's be honest though.... Irma/Irving woulda done the same thing as a girl (or agender, or bigender, or anything else). Fighter's gotta fight.


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Rachel Newstead
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Guest post by "Rachel Newstead"
You're right, Christine...since when did Irma need gender as an excuse to fight? LOL

Submitted November 28, 2013 at 11:32PM



Tyler
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I'm genderqueer and the way Irving is going about this is making me uncomfortable... she makes it seem like she's just playing a game. I can only imagine how Sarah feels, seeing as she's never been exposed to non-binary genders before. I'd bet she can't see this from Irving's point of view at all.

Submitted November 29, 2013 at 6:31AM




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I think Irving does it for the "ooooops" expressions. I know I do. ;-)

Submitted November 29, 2013 at 7:00AM



stephy1aq
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Maybe it's like super heroes, untill they get into costume they're just mild manner average people.  The mindset.frame of mind that changes with costume/clothing and all, the whole persona!

Submitted November 29, 2013 at 8:18AM



Pinkbatmax
 

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Guest post by "Tyler"
I'm genderqueer and the way Irving is going about this is making me uncomfortable... she makes it seem like she's just playing a game. I can only imagine how Sarah feels, seeing as she's never been exposed to non-binary genders before. I'd bet she can't see this from Irving's point of view at all.

I get where you're coming from, but I think the honest truth is that at this point in their life, Irving/Irma is playing with gender. Remember, though, play is a way that children experiment with roles. The way they try things on, see what fits and what suits them.

I've volunteered several summers at the Gender Spectrum Family Conference. It's a wonderful event held annually. There is a program for adults, one for teens, and a camp for children. Having seen and met a number of these children, I can say confidently that I've met some like Sarah.... always have known their true gender identity and always will, and all they want is the freedom to express it. For for each child like that I've met, I've also met two or three who are playing with gender. Experimenting. Trying things out. Even just plain having fun.

Professionals working with gender nonconforming children will tell you this is pretty typical, and that some will grow up and retain gender nonconforming identities. Some will become transgender, bigender, agender, gender fluid, genderqueer adults. Others won't. But all of them are better for having had the room and space to play as a child, and learn from that playing.

I think that, as adults, we hold an entirely unwarranted negative view toward play. We see it as trivial, as insignificant. I'd suggest the opposite is true. I'd suggest that through play, we can learn who we are. We can find ourselves.

Now, it's true that Sarah is very serious minded about gender, and she may not understand where Irving/Irma is coming from. I believe, however, that Sarah has her answers about gender but she doesn't have THE answers. Her knowledge is personal, but she may not know or understand someone else's quite legitimate truths. In short, Irving/Irma has learned a lot from Sarah. Perhaps Sarah, too, can learn from Irving/Irma. Perhaps in the final tally, they will each learn from the other and be better for it. The path toward learning isn't always easy and certainly can be uncomfortable, but I think they can and will both grow quite nicely from their friendship. Even if the road will get bumpy along the way.

For further reading on the subject, I'd like to suggest "The Transgender Child: A Handbook for Families and Professionals" Stephanie A. Brill  (Author) , Rachel Pepper. Also, the Gender Spectrum website is a MUST. It can be found below:

https://www.genderspectrum.org/

I hope this helps illuminate where I'm coming from in this arc. ;')






Submitted November 29, 2013 at 1:41PM



Amy!
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Guest post by "Amy!"
"I get where you're coming from, but I think the honest truth is that at this point in their life, Irving/Irma is playing with gender. Remember, though, play is a way that children experiment with roles. The way they try things on, see what fits and what suits them.


I've volunteered several summers at the Gender Spectrum Family Conference. It's a wonderful event held annually. There is a program for adults, one for teens, and a camp for children. Having seen and met a number of these children, I can say confidently that I've met some like Sarah.... always have known their true gender identity and always will, and all they want is the freedom to express it. For for each child like that I've met, I've also met two or three who are playing with gender. Experimenting. Trying things out. Even just plain having fun.

Professionals working with gender nonconforming children will tell you this is pretty typical, and that some will grow up and retain gender nonconforming identities. Some will become transgender, bigender, agender, gender fluid, genderqueer adults. Others won't. But all of them are better for having had the room and space to play as a child, and learn from that playing.

I think that, as adults, we hold an entirely unwarranted negative view toward play. We see it as trivial, as insignificant. I'd suggest the opposite is true. I'd suggest that through play, we can learn who we are. We can find ourselves.

Now, it's true that Sarah is very serious minded about gender, and she may not understand where Irving/Irma is coming from. I believe, however, that Sarah has her answers about gender but she doesn't have THE answers. Her knowledge is personal, but she may not know or understand someone else's quite legitimate truths. In short, Irving/Irma has learned a lot from Sarah. Perhaps Sarah, too, can learn from Irving/Irma. Perhaps in the final tally, they will each learn from the other and be better for it. The path toward learning isn't always easy and certainly can be uncomfortable, but I think they can and will both grow quite nicely from their friendship. Even if the road will get bumpy along the way.

For further reading on the subject, I'd like to suggest "The Transgender Child: A Handbook for Families and Professionals" Stephanie A. Brill  (Author) , Rachel Pepper. Also, the Gender Spectrum website is a MUST. It can be found below:

https://www.genderspectrum.org/

I hope this helps illuminate where I'm coming from in this arc. ;')"


You rock~
<3

Submitted November 30, 2013 at 9:30AM




z
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@Tyler: I'm non-binary as well, so I want to put my take on this as another non-binary person.

These are CHILDREN. Play is WHAT THEY DO. When I was a child- I pretended to be disney characters. Our local librarian honestly thought my parents had named me "Cinderella", I'd pretend to be Tinkerbell and call my parents Peter Pan and Wendy, I had to be coaxed out of the Alice in Wonderland costume I wore CONSTANTLY. so they could wash it. Are you uncomfortable with a child who doesn't actually plan on being a parent playing daddy to a baby doll? Are you uncomfortable with a child who professes to want to be a ballerina building with blocks? It's the same thing.

Children play. It's what they do. It's how they learn, it's how they understand the world. Playing different roles develops empathy and understanding of others. Playing with gender like this is no different than pretending to be a doctor or teacher or stay at home parent or astronaut or dinosaur. People forget that- both you and cis parents who want to "set their kids straight" (pun intended). Sometimes it's underlying of a true desire (some kids who play doctor grow up to have a passion for medicine, some kids who play with gender grow up to be transgender), sometimes it's just for fun.

Most adults don't fully understand gender. Do you know how many adult trans people go through different stages of "playing" with gender before coming to realize who they actually are? "I'm just a straight woman like I'm supposed to be", "I'm a butch lesbian", "I'm a drag king" lg, "I'm genderqueer", "I'm a boi", "I'm a man"- lather, rinse, repeat. Sure, some people know from when they're 2- other people just feel a sense of "not right" and have to try on many identities to find the right one, other people know but try to run from it and bury it and so it takes that many stages to come to accept it.

Irma and Sarah have talked about this, when Irma was part-boy/part-girl for awhile. http://the-princess.funonthe.net/index.php?action=comics&cid=117 Sarah may still be upset by it, but it's not like there's no precedence for Irma/Irving doing these things.

And, really, think about what you are saying. You are saying that unless a child is proven to be transgender, children do not deserve to present differently than to their assigned sex. You are saying that Sarah's mother was right for trying to squelch a child's gender just because an adult didn't believe it's who she truly was. You are saying that if a child needs to play with gender to figure out who they are, that child does not deserve to figure out their own gender because it might hurt the kids who are fortunate enough to know who they are from the start. You are saying that cis kids need to be taught that gender and presentation are immutable rules, further othering and setting as "Different" trans kids.

Submitted December 1, 2013 at 10:34AM



Tyler
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@Pinkbatmax

Alright, that makes a lot of sense, thanks. 

I should clarify that the comic itself wasn't making me uncomfortable, rather I could feel the uncomfortableness of the situation. I should have worded that better. 

@Z 

That is it what I meant at all. Perhaps it came across that way but suggesting that children should not be allowed to explore gender whether they are trans* or not is FAR from what I intended. It would be a rather hypocritical view for me to hold. 

Submitted December 2, 2013 at 9:51AM



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